Product Update on budgets & quality

Hello PPHers,

We know that pricing is a big concern for many of you. Here at PPH we value quality over cheap prices so we are increasing our efforts to keep rates and quality above competition.

Here are some product features we have recently launched around budgets and prices:

1. Experience Level:

When Buyers post their Jobs they now need to select one of the 3 levels of experience and rates of the Sellers they want to get Proposals from.

This allows the Buyer get the kind of Proposals they are after and Sellers to choose where to bid. There is no bidding restriction for the Seller in place.

budget

2. Net earnings:

When Sellers send Proposals to Jobs they can now see an estimate of their earnings after the PPH Service Fee charge. This is calculated as if the invoice for the Job was raised at the time of the Proposal. Because the Service Fee depends on the earnings of the Seller so far in the month, the actual Service Fee for the paid invoice of Job may be slightly different.

earnings

3. Pre-Funded Jobs:

After a job post, the Buyer can place a deposit for the Job. If they do the Job will be marked as PRE-FUNDED which reassures Sellers that they are serious about awarding the Job. Therefore the Job will get better Proposals from more Sellers. Also Auto-Assign Jobs were removed from the site because it was not an option many of you used.

prefunded

4. Hourlies prices:

We have rounded up all Hourlie prices to the nearest 10 for the £ (GBP) currency.

This will help Buyers make quicker decisions about the Hourlies they plan to buy making the listings page more clean and it will also push Hourlie prices up to more professional standards.

How it works: For a Buyer with £ (GBP) currency, an Hourlie with old price £16 now costs £20 and an Hourlie with old price $28 becomes £20 instead of £18. So Sellers may be earning a little more for some orders than originally stated in the Hourlie page (there is no change in your net earnings calculation and PPH service fee scheme).

These are a few things we have been working lately. It would be very helpful for us if you let us know your feedback on any of the above and also if you could give us more ideas on how we can keep quality and budgets to highly professional standards in all cases.

Kind regards,
The PPH Team

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Dimitris Koufakis
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John
John

Ty
here is typo in 2nd to last paragraph of your post…

“How it works: For a Buyer with £ (GBP) currency, an Hourlie with old price £16 now costs £20 and an Hourlie with old price $28 becomes £20 instead of £18. So Sellers may be earning a little more for some orders than originally stated in the Hourlie page (there is no change in your net earnings calculation and PPH service fee scheme).”

I believe $28 should be $18!

Abed Alzain
Abed Alzain

That’s good changes for us.
Thank you

Muna
Muna

The Experience Level upgrade is not good at all. It keeps new sellers from winning any proposals because, let’s face it, Buyers are always going to select the expert or the intermediate levels!

PPH needs to be more Seller-friendly.

Muna

Harry
Harry

Experience Level Feature!!! This has really let me down and frustrated me. This makes sending proposals an absolute nightmare! I’ve submitted 2-3 proposals today alone which have been rejected as it exceeded their budget. A budget which I wasn’t able to see in the first place!! It’s now completely guess work to submitting proposals. Also, what is to define a basic job from an experts job? It’s gone downhill for people per hour within the last few weeks – with the introduction on ads (fair enough you guys need to make as much money as possible) But i really don’t… Read more »

soniya
soniya

Thanks for the system update. We could not see the client budget so there will be much confusion while selecting right jobs to apply as a seller.

Darren
Darren

Ouch.

This is a move to try and generalise and streamline, but in doing this, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

The budget price set by the seller, is generally an indication of quality needed anyway.. I don’t thing defining ideal budget by 1 – 3 pound symbols will work well.. very confusing for a seller.

Setting a value price as a quality indicator, as a much more broad range.. why change this?

All this streamlining to make things “better” will make or break..

This is a bit worrying for me, coming form a user of 5 years

Darren
Darren

The budget indicator really really needs to change, I’ve just seen it.. it doesn’t make sense when viewing in a listing..

I can still offer a high level server, with a “high quality” budget set.. but if there’s more budget, I can offer even more.. it’s hard to communicate this in to a proposal..

Pijush Kanti Karmakar
Pijush Kanti Karmakar

The budget is shown is not perfect for everybody. It should change or freelancer can put the fill up.

Nick
Nick

The Experience Level upgrade is good for HOURLY based jobs.

But for FIXED price jobs this is a nightmare, I now have no idea what is the budget for listed project making it very difficult to filter out which jobs I want to submit a proposal for.

Michaela M
Michaela M

I believe all changes are quite usefull, however agree with the comment on the budget and proposals veing rejected for a too high rate. With the years of experience and market knowledge, I believe PPH can come up with an estimated budget range field in addition to the experience level, as let’s face it, some clients have no idea what budget to put and therefore just choose the cheapest expecting the best! This is unrealistic. If I want the expert, I should also pay accordingly. I know there are different rates in different areas of the world, so I suggest… Read more »

Fortune Tech
Fortune Tech

Whilst it’s a good idea to try and make upgrades to the system such that it’s friendly for all, it should also be considered that “not everything can be automated, not everything can be perfected”. Let there be the prevalence of some manual things as well as some common sense, please. Let the Buyers decide who is good for them based on the proposals they receive. Granted that the seller expertise and budget / fees are co-related to a certain extent, but then it’s highly unlikely that it has to be the norm! A freelancer who is new on PPH… Read more »

Sam
Sam

Personally I feel that the £££ system is unhelpful and will lead to a lot of wasted proposals. It is too subjective on the part of the buyer. Il was far better to let the buyer state a budget.

Nina
Nina

I now can’t see any budget levels which was a major key for me for choosing projects to bid on. It really helped me to filter out the tyre kickers and time wasters. Now all I can see is seller experience level which is absolutely not the same. How am I supposed to weed out the decent projects now? I had been applying for quite a few projects this week but since you’ve removed the budget indication I’m very reluctant to waste my time applying for projects from people who can’t afford my services.

Daniel
Daniel

It’s practically impossible to know which jobs to send proposals for now.

Elaine
Elaine

Really bad idea – it is impossible to know what the client is prepared to spend. We need to see the budget before bidding – it is the only way to properly tailor a proposal to the clients requirements. PPH is great and the way to stand out is to make really individual proposals rather than generic ones, but without a guideline budget it is difficult to tell how much time and money a client is willing or able to spend.

Rebecca
Rebecca

The lack of a budget now makes it so hard to determine which jobs i want to submit a budget for. It was so much better before when we could see the budget – this made it clear whether it was worth submitting a proposal. Now it’s all guesswork and a lot of wasted time and effort. Bring back the old system.

Graham
Graham

On balance I think these changes are positive. However, I would make two points: 1) We should have been notified of the hourlie price change in advance and given the opportunity to change it ourselves in advance. I don’t appreciate seeing my prices change without any input from me. 2) The experience toggle would be useful in addition to a specific budget amount. In isolation, it gives sellers nothing on which to decide whether to submit a proposal or not. If the budget figure was also re-introduced it would mean that sellers could make an informed choice whether to bid,… Read more »

Chris
Chris

Hi PPH team. This idea is kind of forward thinking. It may not be bad but here are some thoughts: 1. How low/average/higher rates are defined? How much is low or high? Who defines that? If I am very experienced but I have “average rates” I am not getting the “good” ones? Experience and rate are 2 different things. Do I have to raise my rates 2. Is Seller Experience level related to Cert level? The Cert Level can be manipulated. If someone advertises PPH around and get his non-PPH clients into PPH then he gets higher Cert. That is… Read more »

John Crowder
John Crowder

The hourlie rounding is an odd move.

I believe it forces prices down.

The perception between say £19 and £20 is a huge one.

Most will have to round down not up.

Andrea
Andrea

I’m good with all the new changes, but the thing about the budget… unfortunately, for a huge amount of buyers, requiring an expert doesn’t mean having an high budget. most of the times doesn’t mean having a decent budget neither. and let face it, who would deliberately tell “I want to hire a cheap noob”. obviously all of them will ask for an expert, even if their job is an easy task, hoping to find one which will accept the cheap budget that they’ve got. if you want, you might add another thing where they can comunicate the level of… Read more »

Lauren Brewis
Lauren Brewis

Please please change this back PPH!

Ian Brown
Ian Brown

I totally agree with Nina. On the face of it, the changes are the start of something that could be reasonably good.

My sector is Legal work. I am a 2nd year trainee Barrister with 24 years experience as a solicitor working for some of the worlds largest companies and banks.

That means my experience level is £££”£”, yet the new system does not resolve the issue I have with those both not qualified (bare in mind its illegal to practice without either the registration or Professional Indemnity Insurance)

Ed
Ed

No budgets? What a nightmare! How can bid with no idea of a budget? Every seller will need to ask the buyer on each job what the budget is. A nightmare for the buyer and a nightmare for the seller.

There is an old saying:

“If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

Faryad
Faryad

Thank God I see new useful updates from PPH. Almost all of the recent updates were nightmare except for these ones in the post. Good…

Ian
Ian

As we the majority of the comments above the experience level without budget guidance will lead to considerable seller proposals being wasted and ultimately even more time being spent on the other freelancer sites. What would be a sensible intermediate step ( I ultimately believe buyers or a at a minimum new buyers should be forced to put a budget range in) would be to include an extra field where if a buyer selects expert or intermediate they have to declare a budget range. 1. Will stop wasted proposals. 2. Will get the right proposals for jobs looking for experts… Read more »

Jewel
Jewel

Not being able to see the budget is a complete nightmare! This is not fair and balanced! You are forcing us to waste proposal credits and GUESS a rate to charge…and as a result, forcing us to either drastically underbid ourselves just HOPING we will fit within their budget range….or over bidding, hoping the client has set a budget that fits the job. Either way the sellers are stabbing in the dark, with the likelihood it is the seller who will get cut. You have created a situation that fuels bad publicity. Who is going to suggest people they know… Read more »

Ian Brown
Ian Brown

Sorry, the rest was not pasted correctly. I totally agree with Nina. On the face of it, the changes are the start of something that could be reasonably good. My sector is Legal work. I freelance to pay my University fee’s. I’m a 2nd year trainee Barrister with 24 years’ experience as a solicitor working for some of the world’s largest companies and banks That means my experience level is £££”£”, yet the new system does not resolve the issue I have with those both not qualified (bear in mind most call themselves Solicitor’s, yet it’s both illegal to practice… Read more »

Ken
Ken

Good Update but for the budget update.

Everyone has a budget in mind before posting a job. It is much better to have everyone put in a budget so that freelancers can send proposals depending on the need of the client and accordingly.

This new budget system has just one clear advantage. To waste proposals and benefit PPH proposal sales.

Something should be done ASAP because PPH has suddenly become less attractive to me.

Al M
Al M

What I have noticed, is that it doesn’t matter what updates PPH put in place, to enhance the overall market place. There is always someone moaning. It’s quite simple, you adapt, and change! Those who are quick to adapt, will carry on surviving. Those who constantly moaning about updates, are going to be left behind. I thought I would also address a couple of points raised in the comments above. Firstly, I have seen several times now, members complaining about Ads.. As if it is some how effecting the market place. I think you are failing to see the bigger… Read more »

Voice of Reason
Voice of Reason

People are acting surprised that they would do something like this. It definitely will lead to a lot of rejected proposals due to the unknown budget. This works out great for the People at PPH. This will mean all sellers will have to buy more credits to send more proposals, thus making them more money. So yes it does work out horrible for the both the buyers and sellers, but at the end of the day PPH is a business and its obvious they are putting their interests first. Not really much you can do about it.

Conqu3rer
Conqu3rer

PPH is constantly bringing out good updates & I really appreciate that, but this one is not one of them.

As sellers, it’s become very confusing for sending proposals when we don’t have a clear idea of what the buyer’s budget is. Please Please revert back to the old system or at least remove the experience level option for Fixed Rate Jobs.

Conqu3rer
Conqu3rer

All the changes except the Experience level feature are good. As sellers, it’s nearly impossible to spend our proposal credits on a job which does not have a clear budget set. I’ve been with PPH since a very long time but frankly, this change has me seriously worried. For most of us, freelancing is the only source of income, but this change will hinder our earnings for sure. There will be lots of sellers who will put up £££ for even a small job and many others who will put up £ for a larger job. It’s a complete waste… Read more »

Matt
Matt

The new budget feature is such a ridiculous notion that I cannot believe that it was even run past anyone who has freelanced for a living. I’m busy with clients – I have a limited amount of time to make proposals, and certainly can’t decide whether a client is serious or has the budget for my services based on 1-3 £ signs. Have been gradually moving over to Freelancer.com in the past few months. Recent developments here at PPH show little understanding of how full time freelancers work. A shame as it has worked well for a few years, but… Read more »

Ali
Ali

It seems like everyone is complaining about the new budget system. Please bring it back to how it was before. Looking at the clients budget was a key element of me bidding on a project or not – and now that has been removed…

How do I know whether a client has a realistic budget in mind or not without wasting proposal credits??

Oliver Gwynne
Oliver Gwynne

The issue with budgets is that clients on these types of sites tend to want the earth for not much money. All this new system of pitching does is add a level of confusion for everyone. wooshii has a system which gives you a price indication of budget. I think you need to reverse this.

Atif
Atif

The net earnings feature is great and the pre funded jobs feature is nice too but will probably only be used for very small jobs.

The new budget change is not helpful at all. It makes it very difficult to see what jobs to bid for. Unless if PPH plans to guide them in what is a good budget for their kind of project, its best to move back to the old system.

Angela
Angela

It’s great that buyers can now choose certificate levels, it refines there search. Having the buyer pay the deposit beforehand is brilliant, it inspires us, the seller to respond to proposals.

Angela
Angela

I’ve stopped responding to proposals, I feel like I’m wasting my time.

John Burrows
John Burrows

This is just awful.

You now can’t tell whether a client has a budget of $40 or $200.

The single worst idea I have ever seen. I will be leaving this site for one of the others, as I don’t have time to guess budgets.

John Burrows
John Burrows

As my comment was deleted, I thought I’d try again.

This new ‘feature’ is an incredibly bad idea for sellers. Previously, I could browse for jobs, see the ones that were $200, and read them before making a proposal.

Now, the only option is to open everything. I don’t know whether their budget is $20, $50, $100, $200 – whatever.

Now I would have to apply for everything, then turn it down when it turns out they’re offering $40 for a responsive website, hosted.

I’m not going to do that, personally. Some will, and the quality of work provided will suffer for it.

Roddur Roy
Roddur Roy

I feel that the budget system is unhelpful and will lead to a lot of wasted proposals. Please rollback budget section .

Dan Skinner
Dan Skinner

PPH! For goodness sake!!

All you had to do is make the budget MANDATORY by the buyer.

Too many jobs have no budget.

Your cuddling all the time wasting buyers and killing all your faithful freelancers. Were trying to make a living here!!!!!

Derei
Derei

So, PPH will just ignore all this comments ? The idea with £££ would go well if the seller doesn’t set any budget, so as an alternative can set an experience range, therefore knowing what kind of bidders to expect. But also, should offer the option to set a BUDGET !!! What are you trying to do here ??? Trying to make us to play blind? Not going to happen… I have a feeling that PPH will start an abrupt spiral down. But fortunately, other options exist. Too bad though… seemed a good platform. Bad policies ruin good ideas. Good… Read more »

David Gavin
David Gavin

You can bend and shape things any way you want… you can give them cool names and labels too, but at the end of the day the sad truth is that you’ve gone the way of many other freelance sites… CHEAP! There was a time when I was working non-stop on PPH. I met some wonderful clients throughout the years because quality buyers were looking for quality workers. Now, I’m lucky to see one project a month that’s even worth bidding on. If you’d do a bit of extra homework to find out what the standard rates are in any… Read more »

Derei
Derei

Interesting how PPH has this habit to not publish (or delete) comments… it seems that they can’t handle a pertinent comment. That’s very unfortunate. But I will post again, maybe this time will remain: ” So, PPH will just ignore all this comments ? The idea with £££ would go well if the seller doesn’t set any budget, so as an alternative can set an experience range, therefore knowing what kind of bidders to expect. But also, should offer the option to set a BUDGET !!! What are you trying to do here ??? Trying to make us to play… Read more »

Hilary
Hilary

It would probably help if both clients and freelancers all knew ballpark figures in relation to each £ level (at the very least).

Gabriel
Gabriel

As many already pointed out, replacing the budget with this arbitrary system that can mean anything to anyone is a terrible idea. I can only assume that you did this in order to ‘force’ freelancers to send more proposals (which they might have to do as they are no longer able to see and evaluate beforehand if the budget is worth applying for) – which will result in them buying more proposal credits and, ultimately, in you having more revenue. However, you should know that you killed one of the features that made PPH much better than other freelancing websites.… Read more »

Josh Turner
Josh Turner

The budget level is a very poor change. The price set is subjective, so I click into what is supposedly an expert paid job, and find a rate that is in fact rather low for the work offered.

As it stands this creates both more work for me, but also means it’s a lot harder to link up with appropriate jobs. All in a very bad change.

gopi kumaran
gopi kumaran

Expertise level:

This seems to be waste for Seller as budget price is lost. Without knowing the budget, the credit will be wasted. I am not sure how you guys decide the changes before making live.

Roger
Roger

Hello all, Initially I thought, humm another change and asked myself, where has the budget for the job postings gone… Although it is helpful to know what the clients budget it. The new £, ££, £££ does indicate the level of skill and budget the client is willing to pay and the level of skill they are looking for. Obviously, the higher the skill level, the higher the cost (generally) Personally I have had a slow week so far, giving myself a little time off so have not tested the above system. I also know I price myself out at… Read more »

Luke
Luke

Some great additions here. Having a calculated earning within the proposal form is very handy. Nice to see buyers have the choice of selecting the experience/rate of freelancer. People complaining about not having experience to get jobs need to realise that it doesn’t come quickly, put in the hard work and don’t for one second rely on PPH as a sole source of projects. I’ve spent 3-4 years on PPH building up a decent profile as a side line to my existing freelance clients. I haven’t needed to bid on a project in months. People just contact me directly and… Read more »

Asad Ali
Asad Ali

Atleast, please let the sellers see the buyer specified budget. In this way, we can assume if we want to offer our services or not. In this our limited bids will also not get wasted. Please bring the budget seeing feature back.

Thanks

Paul C.
Paul C.

I still see jobs with actual budget, so probably the £-££-£££ system does not stop buyers to show their budget.

I think this is a change in the right direction and I support what Michaela M suggested already “PPH can come up with an estimated budget range field in addition to the experience level”

As a seller, I spend incredible amount of time bidding on projects that don’t have enough budget to support the hours of work involved.

Derei
Derei

Try to post a job and see if you can set the budget somewhere. There is nowhere to do that. Yes, the old jobs appear with budget.

John Lister
John Lister

The new budget system is ridiculous. It turns the bidding process into a game of poker. Professional freelancers don’t have time to play games.

Derei
Derei

So, let’s make a scenario: Buyer places order, buyer clicks on one of the three options. Psychologically speaking the buyer doesn’t feel responsible, doesn’t assume upon itself that commitment. On the other hand, giving the option to set a budget, that is a different thing. The Buyer will commit to that by actually taking a decision regarding the budged. Or, if the client doesn’t want to set a budget or doesn’t know, could use the £,££,£££ option to give a clue about his(or her) expectations regarding the job posted. Like “i want this image edited, but I have no idea… Read more »

Martin Williamson
Martin Williamson

The new budget system is horrendous. I was once placed as high as in the top 250 out of 600,000 so have used this site for 3 years now. As a freelance designer I like to look at the budget and if it is low I might just have time to bid for a £50-£100 job. How do I know what budget a £££ means? So lets say a buyer wants a magazine designing, I say I can do that for £600, but the buyers budget he has in mind is £500 so my bid is too high. If I… Read more »

Martin Williamson
Martin Williamson

How do I know what price range £ is?
What price range is ££
And what price range is £££
Is there a system? Otherwise it makes no sense.
If the buyer has a £150 budget is that ££ or £££
What if the buyer has a budget of £150 but one buyer wants a business card designing and the other wants a full website built and designed – would both jobs have the same ££ symbol as they are the same monetary value?

Mike Lynson
Mike Lynson

Not being able to see a clients budget is a really bad idea in my opinion. It is obvious that tons of other people feel the same way. I feel like this is going to one of those moments that makes or breaks this site. Is PPH going to stick with this change against the wishes of a majority of its’ users, or are they going to listen to feed back from the community to make the site even better.
The Ball in their court!

JD Web Management
JD Web Management

Guy’s come on.. this new system is the worst thing to happen to PPH.

It wastes the time of both the buyer AND the seller and now the questions feed is just filled with questions of ‘What’s the budget?’

Buyers are wasting proposals as the Seller’s are advising that it exceeds their budget. And the Seller’s are getting loads of Proposals that don’t match their budget causing them to look elsewhere.

Everyone loses!

CHANGE IT BACK.

Quadarc
Quadarc

What are the meanings of £ or ££ or £££ !!!
How would I know how much clients are willing to spend without knowing their budget range?

“£” symbols should have some meaning attached to it.

Good idea but badly implemented !

Pauline Hiam
Pauline Hiam

I totally agree with Mike Lynson what on earth has happened to the budgets??? It is not fair on the seller in this format we cannot know what the budget is on practically all the jobs. This is a very bad idea, and is making me feel I will have to work on another site.

Jamie
Jamie

This is the worst update ever made for providers on People Per Hour.

Knowing the clients budget is a very important part of winning business.

Before, I could quickly filter out jobs that were not worth bidding for but now I don’t have any idea what is worth bidding for and what isn’t.

Who decides some of these updates? They suck.

It is not going to improve quality at all, it is hard enough to put an accurate quote in for jobs as it is, let alone being completely in the dark with budget.

A Sharp
A Sharp

The £ / ££ / £££ system is the most ridiculous change yet for PPH, for a huge number of reasons! 1. Buyers often don’t know what the market rate for a job is, so are ill-equipped to decide whether they want to pay £ or £££. 2. It will waste seller’s time and proposal credits, since there is no way of knowing whether a seller is thinking of £10 per hour or £50 per hour when they select one of the £, ££ or £££ symbols. 3. It sets false expectations on both sides because nothing is spelled out… Read more »

Sam
Sam

Hmmm, I came here to read the reason why I can’t see client budgets anymore. Not convinced lads, new system seems really unhelpful and is removing an important aspect of the site.

Nick
Nick

An example of why replacing budget with Experience level doesn’t work.

See job # 856751

This has experience level of £££

Then looking in the questions there is an answer giving the budget of £50

Wasting so much time now trying to work out if its worthwhile bidding on a job.

Pauline Hiam
Pauline Hiam

Here here Nick, this site is ruined with all the changes they are making especially the budget. I believe a lot of PPH’rs will be leaving for other freelancing sites. I have loved working on this site up until now.

Sam
Sam

Here is a concrete example of why this new system is so unhelpful for buyers and sellers. This job has just been posted – https://www.peopleperhour.com/job/statistics-heavy-research-needed-buying-selling-used-c-857402 It is a repost of this job, which I and 10 other sellers put in proposals for – https://www.peopleperhour.com/job/statistics-heavy-research-needed-buying-selling-used-c-857402 I was encouraged by PPH to RAISE my bid, based on what other people had bid (this is a new feature that hasn’t made it onto the blog!). As the job was listed as £££ and is very detailed, I bid accordingly. Now it turns out the buyer only has a budget of £80. So 11… Read more »

Martin Williamson
Martin Williamson

Below is the exact reason why the £££ system does not work AT ALL!!! This was a series of messages AFTER I had taken 15 minutes out of my day to speak to this person. PPH please read and please comment, this is getting ridiculous… #855480 I Am Looking For A Logo Designer £££ (my blind bid was £120) Great to speak to you earlier. Have you had time to think about what we discussed? It was great to speak to you too. I have had time to think about it and I really like your designs but the price… Read more »

Conqu3rer
Conqu3rer

I hope PeoplePerHour will respond to the negative feedback about the Experience Level System & Revert back to the old system or at least add the option to display the buyer’s budget. I’ll hold off on sending proposals till then. Don’t want to waste time and proposal credits unless I have a clear idea what the buyer’s budget is.

Chris
Chris

Hi PPH. I have tested the new £££/ ££/ £ way trying to “guesstimate” what this means to a client. So far… I am wasting proposal credits as this means nothing meaningful to help me prioritize where to send proposals and where not too.

Chris
Chris

Also. Some other Buyer has contacted me and despite him showing a £££ at his task request, upon discussion he pointed that he was giving no more than 10 GBP per hour 🙂

Kieran
Kieran

The £ rating has absolutely no relevance whatsoever for clients and even less for sellers. I actually inform prospective clients in my profile that I don’t bid on jobs without a budget.

Might as well not have any budget at all as this scheme.

What on earth was the rationale behind this?

Allison McCafferty
Allison McCafferty

I cannot actually believe after having been away for a week that this has happened. I won’t keep repeating but as everyone else has said the budget of a project was the indicator that made me evaluate the viability of placing a bid or not and taking this out seems strange as clie I have earned nearly £40,000 via Peopleperhour so obviously I understand that putting in the time and effort definitely pays off, and I am aware that there are great buyers on this site. I am consistently in the top level of freelancers and have established a solid… Read more »

Darren Powell
Darren Powell

This should have been tested first in some way, rolling it out like it has been, has been the worst move I have seen from PPH. The balance of buyer, and seller must be considered. The thing that gets my goat, is people make a living from PPH, more than likely, entrusting PPH to make the right decisions, in order to keep financially stable, but also make PPH even better. This move has been a bit of a slap in the face for many… so much so, it makes me question whether PPH should be my main focus now, as… Read more »

A. Sharp
A. Sharp

By far the most ridiculous thing that PPH have done. Ever. Why are you trying to cloud the picture? Have you got something to hide? Or are you trying to trick either buyers or sellers somehow? Surely transparency is best for everyone, to avoid wasted time, disappointed buyers and frustrated sellers? To me, it looks like the sellers with low budgets will be disappointed because they can’t afford the good guys who are now putting excellent proposals in front of them, which they wouldn’t previously have seen. On the other side, the good sellers are frustrated as they are wasting… Read more »

Carla
Carla

Freelancers need to be able to see the budget please this is essential.. I personally can’t waste my time bidding unless I know the budget also one can’t submit a relevant proposal without that information as it clarifies what it is that the Client is looking for.

Matt
Matt

I think it is pretty clear with a range of freelancers voicing their objections to this move that PPH have got this wrong. I’m top cert, have been with PPH for 3 years, but am not going to waste my time writing proposals without a budget. I think this was probably a well intentioned idea, but most buyers have no idea about the experience level they require or the cost of that experience. Changes of this magnitude should not be implemented without a trial or user testing. Basic development practice. I sent a support request to pph when this feature… Read more »

David
David

This is a really daft, poorly conceived and unworkable alteration to a system that was working well until you, once again, decided to mess around with it. Buyers rarely know what a job costs and since you don’t define low, average or high and every profession has a different concept of low, average and high, how on earth is a buyer supposed to know what they mean? Buyers often don’t know what a job involves – we’ve all seen the buyers who say it is a half-hour ‘easy’ job that we have to explain is a four hour skilled job,… Read more »

Paul
Paul

Yes, an idea that helps nobody.

David
David

Also, I wonder how many customers are really going to select ‘I want a freelancer with little experience’ to work for me?

Yeah, I’m in court next week- I want a solicitor who doesn’t know what he’s doing..

My wedding pictures? Oh yes, I’d like somebody who hasn’t a clue how to use a camera..

I need a new website – it doesn’t matter if you don’t have a clue what you are doing – you can learn at my expense….

PPH talks about keeping quality up then offers clients the option of picking only low quality workers…seriously???

Andrea
Andrea

You know what could be a great idea which helps both buyers and sellers? make the buyer set their MAXIMUM BUDGET, which doesn’t mean what they are willing to spend, but what, in any case, it’s the MAXIMUM THE CAN AFFORD to pay. make that value not visible on the job advert, so nobody will know it. then before writing and sending a proposal, the sellers can double check that the quote which they are thinking to submit, is not exceeding the maximum. so by instance there is a widget in the sidebar, where they can insert the hypotetical proposal… Read more »

Lauren Curtis
Lauren Curtis

I have no problem with some of these changes but the non-specific budget system is ridiculous! One of the main reasons I preferred this site to other freelance job sites was that it encouraged employers to post their budget…as a full time artist, we are all too often under valued and this way we knew up front if we felt it was worth using our bids on a project or not. This new, non specific system is a big step backwards and is way too vague and can turn it into a guessing game for both buyers and sellers! We… Read more »

Kieran
Kieran

http://www.peopleperhour.com/job/i-need-a-professional-copywriter-861104?utm_source=MatchingInvitationsToBid&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=job-invitations&ref=email

Prime example of why this doesn’t work. A ££ rating implying a decent rate of pay. Client wants 5 SEO pages (no word count) for £20. I wouldn’t even enter into negotiation with this client knowing the budget, but without the budget, I would assume this had a realistic budget, waste a bid and time that could be spent with serious buyers. Jobs with clearly unrealistic budgets shouldn’t even allowed to be posted on PPH.

Chris
Chris

Hi. Same issue here. A client had a task that was £££ and the budget was 50£.
So… what is going on with this? I mean even this kind of rating maybe OK but some meaningful terms need to be applied in order to define the limits between low/medium/high budget.
It was my question from the beginning. What are these limits. Even if PPH does not want to disclose the limits variables (i mean like saying: £ means 2 to 30 GBP, ££ means X to Z, etc), if it stays like that is like fooling both sides (buyers/sellers).

James
James

Chris, I think this is why the scheme is so flawed. Terms such as low budget, average or high budget simply cannot be defined. Low budget for “design an interactive iPhone app” will not be the same as low budget for “upload this to my Ebay site”. Low budget for any job in London is not the same as low budget in New Delhi. Low budget does not mean the freelancer is an amateur, neither does a high budget mean the freelancer will be an expert. If you set fixed cash values to each definition, such as low = £0… Read more »

Derei
Derei

@Chris – this kind of rating would NOT be ok exactly for a reason I think you stated few days before… Different kind of jobs mean different price ranges. So, for a job £ = 20GBP, for another £ = 500GBP. Let’s say someone wants an architectural plan… that one even with 500 wouldn’t be expensive, so may be labeled as “£”. Someone wants a 300 words text written. That could be labeled “£” for 20GBP. But the issue is that negative comments pile up and PPH don’t come with a reply, is like they ignore everything. They leave people… Read more »

chris
chris

@Derei. I agree it is not the right one. It is just an optimization in the logic and a suggestion to PPH. It would be better to know the budget of course. Again I have to say that there is a flaw in the markup logic of PPH. I have specific cases where the projects where marked as £££, yet the client meant 50 GBP. So somehow buyers need to be “instructed” not to misuse or misguide. For example, that buyer wanted to get high calibre developers in a low fee by tricking the system. So, he set a high… Read more »

Andrea
Andrea

I think Chris suggestion could actually work well, if the range is expressed in hourly rate.

so by instance £ would be “below £15/hr”. in this way the buyer has a little bit better idea of what are we talking about.
obviously they’d still have no idea about how many hours the work will need, but they can easily figure out that if they have £50 budget, they won’t be able to afford a £££ which would probably ask £50 for slightly more than 1 hour work..

Andrea
Andrea

I mean that even if the actual price for a work is very variable, our hourly rates are pretty much standard, and predictable.
and this is also because we normally raise them according to our improving skills, in order to level with the rest of the developers rate.

as many said, buyers have no idea how much our work is worth, so if they had a guidance about the average hourly rates of different level of developers, I think it’ll be of great help for them (and for us, of course)

Derei
Derei

@Andrea, even for hourly rate, please don’t forget there aren’t only UK-based freelancers here. Let’s take a very good programmer in India. He may or may not work for same rate like a uk-based one. Mostly he won’t. Because he doesn’t have to. And his goal is to get clients. So, he will go lower (I wouldn’t be surprised to go half lower). So, what the developing-country programmer sees as £££, the london-based one, who spends a lot only on his rent, may see it barely as ££, if not as £. Same job. Again, This labeling could work as… Read more »

Andrea
Andrea

yes, you’re right.

and so the only other solution I can think of, is the one I’ve explained a few comments above. (about the hidden maximum budget).

I have also created a topic on the feature requests forum, if anyone want to support the idea:
http://bit.ly/1DsLY0W

cheers!

Aris
Aris

Thanks for your feedback everyone. We take feedback from the community very seriously. So the budget is added back to the job posting form and from now on you will see the actual budget of the Job if Buyer has specified it.

Aris B,
Software Engineer
PeoplePerHour.com

Sam
Sam

Hooray! Thanks for listening PPH.

David
David

Whilst I am pleased that the budget is back I am at a loss to know why you introduced this new system in the first place.

It’s hard to imagine how anyone could ever have thought that it could ever work.
I notice that you say the budget is back but don’t say anything about scrapping the pound sign system though. Do you really intend to keep using them despite so much negative feedback?

David
David

I’ve also just had an email about a new feature based on our hourly rates. You already know from this thread and elsewhere that we charge different rates for different services. I hope you’ve allowed for that in the next of your ‘ideas’. Or are we all going to be back here next week pointing out that you’ve messed up our businesses again?

Sad
Sad

I actually thought the £££ thing was a system glitch and i reported it several times. I wish it was a glitch!! Its ridiculous to say the least. I wish the developers respect us enough to let us try it and give them our input before they went a head with an idea that hurts the sellers.
The net earnings is the only thing that gets a thumbs up.

David
David

Sad,
PPH have a long history of skipping the consultation, trial, beta testing etc and just dumping changes on the freelancers. It’ been like this for the three years I’ve been here, with every alteration introduced as making it easier for us or as a response to us craving what they’ve just given us.

Occasionally they have to reverse their less intelligent moves but generally they enforce them until we all give up, a few people leave and the rest try to adapt to an even more difficult work environment.

As you mentioned, net earnings are all that interest Xenios et al.

Chris
Chris

Dear PPH fellows reading this. The “price suggestion” thing you have when someone submits a proposal so far is out of proportion. Whenever I followed the suggestions I never got the task. Almost always the client had a far lower budget in mind and he told me. Sure that “proposal” is related to what others have offered but that is also not quite right, since a client has proven to have something different in mind. I think you need to somehow “instruct” clients to place their close to reality budget and to have a way to discuss it with sellers.… Read more »

Garry W
Garry W

Why oh why do PPH keep messing with a system that works?

Hummingbirdsales
Hummingbirdsales

This was a nightmare when it was first introduced and to me it made no sense- I actually didn’t use the site for a few weeks because of it. But now with the stop backwards to reintroducing the budget amount, where applicable and using the pound symbol for budget and expertise experience rather than just the dash (-) that was previously used, it makes complete sense.. I don’t know why they didn’t do it sooner!

Paul
Paul

This pricing is a nightmare for hourlies. I can’t price my hourlie appropriately, it has to be either $15 USD or $30 USD.

I am forced to go for the lower figure or to lose clients.

Surely you have finished “testing” this feature by now. I can guarantee freelancers hate it, because they are forced to massively increase their price if they want $2 USD more.

Or is the only determinant of keeping it “how much does it increase profit?”. These horrible decisions will damage your company in the long term. Short term profit over long term viability.

Lauren Curtis
Lauren Curtis

I completely agree! I’ve bid on less jobs and gotten less work since these terrible changes! And it’s so rare that a client answers questions about what their budget truly is to enable professionals to place appropriate bids! I bet PPH is losing money since thee changes as it seems people are hiring people who only work for cheap & those of us who refuse to undersell ourselves aren’t getting work here so that means less commissions for PPH!

Snake
Snake

There also seems to be a miminum bid lock in place.
I have bid on several jobs and been told my bid is too low, and told I cannot bid less than £xxx, which is sometimes 2 or 3 x my original bid.
How is this minimum being calculated?

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