Rory M - "Clients are dictating the market. "
Supply and demand - a basic principle of capitalism. Nothing's going to change that - unless you can find a way of culling freelancers (any volunteers?)
And it's actually going to get worse, as developing countries increasingly reach First World levels; at which point Third World countries will become the developing countries... And when they reach First World level then capitalism will collapse - because there will be nobody left to exploit. Either that, or there'll be a global war to ensure there are people to exploit...
But that's probably about 50+ years away- so I'm not worried! ;-)
Thu, 05 Jan 2012 at 10:30pm
As a client who placed an advert for a logo design, I had about 30 bids ranging from £15.00 up to £300. If they had no portfolio of experience, they went into the bin pile. I then reviewed the others, checked out if the actual websites were using the designs that had been created and did some background research.
I then narrowed it down to the responses given to me, i..e was it " Hi Andrew" or was it a copy and paste message without even mentioning my specific requirements.
I eventually narrowed it down to three based on the portfolio.
For me it wasn't about price it was experience/portfolio, communication ( do they show they care about me?) and then finally price.
This method worked for me and ended up with exactly what I wanted.
If your a graphic designer , then it seems fruitless bidding without even a single design done.
Sun, 29 Jan 2012 at 1:09pm
PPH need's to help the buyer cost the project
http://wooshii.co.uk/projects/new/ have a clear way of helping the buyer submit the right price
This is in PPH interest, because as a buyer if quality of work is very poor quality then I won't come back to this site.
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 8:25am
Ben, how do you reconcile the costs of a talented supplier based in the UK, compared to one based in India? The site mentioned takes a view of costs irrespective of cost base.
I doubt PPH will be impressed by your link to a rival operation.
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 8:44am
Fine then they can remove it.
That site has no way to chooses the country
But because of the simple guidance that the site gives the jobs listed are priced more realistic for the UK
This helps everyone because the buyer’s expectation is raised.
It says that for a budget of £75 that there could be problems with the project or it’s going to be substandard. Or for £750 they get a professional UK.
If overseas professional want to under-cut thats fine and its clear why they are cheaper.
At the moment Jobs are being posted and the clarification board is full of “this is way too low” negative feedback
People are then privately posting bids at the realistic price.
But this information is not getting shown to a new buyer so the new buyer again posts a job for £75 (because thats all they can guess for previous posts) and they are disappointed that they get bids in for 10x the price, again negative feedback.
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 9:41am
But £75 is not the going price for an overseas bidder, so saying there could be problems with a £75 budget is wrong.
The example site you mention is also intended for use for aparticular kind of job, while on PPH everything under the sun is possible.
It's not practical for PPH to build such a calculator for a general job market spread over multiple countries. It's not even possible for them to make a focussed one for multiple countries, either.
Another point is that the calculator is perhaps OK for UK-based "average" jobs. It leaves the buyer with a false sense of security that the budget will be adequate, because who knows what the client has in mind - it may not be average at all.
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 10:20am
Good points Paul
Ok go back to PPH roots and the buyer can only select how much they are willing to pay a person per hour, because if I was hiring a developer midwife or brick layer, I guess in the UK £15/30 per hour.
If I want the job done cheaply I put £10 per hour but by doing that I’d know that the midwife who turned up might have hands like shovels.
Remove the max min offer option because that just causes conflict and false preconception that the buyer can put 10p max and people will bid for that. And because the buyers have no idea how much the job will actually cost.
The response would be more honest
Student. I’ll charge £10ph but the job will take 50h because I’m a student
Professional uk I’ll charge £30 and it will take me 20h because I’m a Professional in the UK
Professional overseas I’ll charge £15 and it will take me 20h bec….. you get the idea
And yes jobs do change in scope, but that’s a whole new forum post
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 11:56am
The midwife example made me laugh - big hands could be useful for catching small babies!
There are endless permutations to the bidding game, all because as humans we think one thing, do another and want something else altogether.
I know that people's budgets don't always matter. They often aim low looking for a bargain, but will go higher if given a reason to.
It's only the outright scoundrels that get flack on the PPH clarification boards.
Buyers have come a cropper by taking low offshore bids, one even complained on the forums about it, then repeated the same thing taking another low offshore bid.
You pays your money and takes your chance - that's all it comes down to in the end. Fancy calculator or not.
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 at 12:26pm
I'm new to PPH, so at the moment i'm making low bids to gain good reviews to help future potential clients and i'm even spending time creating a design preview to send with my bid.
If a customer wants a logo design, then i'm thinking perhaps they're setting up a new buisness, so there might be some more work coming my way if i can produce a great design and establish a good relashionship with the client.
Wed, 15 Feb 2012 at 4:18am
i'm thinking perhaps they're setting up a new buisness, so there might be some more work coming my way
A lot of people think that and while you may get more work, your client will expect a continuation of the rock bottom price.
We all understand the need to get a foot in the PPH door, but the low bid strategy isn't sustainable. Beware of your "design preview" - an unscrupulous client may well just go ahead and use it.
Wed, 15 Feb 2012 at 4:34am