Ball park figures are a nightmare - either because one designer lives in the third world and the other in the UK, so their living costs and hourly rate vary hugely. Even with a level playing field, there's a question of quality and client budget and expectations.
At the bottom end, you have clients just getting what they can and designers from the third world finding the budget attractive competing against others who see it as an opportunity to get some feedback at PPH or to pay a bill.
I have had clients that think £60 is expensive and others that expect to spend thousands to get what they want.
It's just supply and demand.
Tue, 08 Nov 2011 at 9:00am
Whilst I'd like to see price guidelines I'm afraid it won't work in what is now a global market economy. I've been aghast at some of the low winning bids for professional creative work on PPH; what is a reasonable hourly rate for me in the UK seems to be about 2 to 3 weeks wages on the other side of the world ... and no, I'm not a model that doesn't leave the house for less than £10K!
What I'd like to see to is those posting jobs realising that proven experience and expertise in a given market is really important to a project's success.
Thu, 10 Nov 2011 at 12:00pm
Some people are happy with what you can knock up in an hour. Some peopel want endless revisions and mounds of brand research.
I'd never pitch for logo/branding at a low rate, but some of my clients pay by the hour, and end up getting a whole boat load of work, for what would be considered next to nothing if I'd offerred it at a fixed price.
I agree, market supply and demand. You hire who you want based on your criteria, and you get what you pay for.
Thu, 17 Nov 2011 at 5:56pm
it seems to be the same in fashion - i've bid for loads of jobs - and had a certain amount of interest - but it really bugs me how low most fashion jobs are on here - i'd be lucky to make £1ph!!!
and the people advertising don't seem to know what they want
so many seem to be students that cant cope with the course rather than professionals looking for professionals
i'm just very disappointed
Fri, 18 Nov 2011 at 12:51am
"students that cant cope with the course rather than professionals looking for professionals"
Well hopefully that means they'll be rubbish when they leave to find work as well, thus not adding to the pool of talent!
Try thinking of the jobs pool like a triangle, and at the bottom are low cost, low quality, and the allusive at the top are the opposite. There are peopel gettign those jobs, they are just a lot harder to get.
Unforunately this is the ever changing world of the freelencer. I used to be a landscape gardener, in fact I used to be a to of things, I had to diversify, and luckily I landed on my feet. But there are no easy jobs for anyone to earn anymore, not even us. The market is growing on both sides, and thus is flooded with people trying to make more money by stetching their job search further afield, or finding themselves jobless and trying to pick themselves back up.
I empathise. But keep at it.
Fri, 18 Nov 2011 at 5:26am
most of the jobs on here are priced for professionals over seas. I've outsourced work to a developer in India for $7 an hour - that's a lot of money! Some people posting jobs on here are unrealistic in their budgets. I'm amazed at some of the budgets, some of which don't cover my electricity bill for switching on my computer. (that was sarcasm, i don't have a computer the size of an office block. just in case someone asks!).
UK professionals can't compete with overseas professionals on price. It used to be on quality but i'm finding clients want over seas prices and UK quality. I actually think this website does more damage than good. Sad times.
Fri, 25 Nov 2011 at 7:07am
Maybe the want 'overseas' prices at 'uk quality' (there are so many things wrong with that statement I haven't time to point them out), but that doesn't mean they'll get get high quality at low cost - at least not without some hiccups.
That doesn't mean it can't be had, and both client and freelancer be happy with the work and pay, but there are many, many other factors that both clients and freelancers don't take into account when embarking on low cost seeking high quality jobs.
Difficulty in communication and time zones for instance. I have a client currently for the US who is employing me at twice the rate he has paid before, because thought the work he was getting was cheaper elsewhere, and high quality, it was taking too long to explain to the freelcner what he wanted.
And I have to work silly hours to make the time difference work...
Just because we are seeing low cost jobs being awarded, does not mean they all work out that way. I've also seen a lot of reposted jobs with renewed budgets after spending/wasting money on a low bid and realising why.
Fri, 25 Nov 2011 at 8:20am
I didn't mean that to sound so bigoted. You get quality anywhere. What i meant was there are a number of companies overseas (claiming to be freelancers) that employ staff and don't actually pay them (I have experience of dealing with a few of these) and then charge low rates to UK companies. A lot of Indian web developers for instance are being exploited, not by UK companies but by their employers. Their staff turnover is high. These employees then setup on their own because they've worked with UK companies and continue to do work for them. Some of the quality of work is excellent, some is poor (same as the UK). This just has a knock-on effect for freelancers in the UK, because clients think they can get cheap freelancers.
I have clients that don't want to pay going rates but expect the same time and quality to be put into the finished product. I'm not being paid to do market research, looking at competition etc but that's something that's expected as part of the job.
Clients are dictating the market. Quality freelancers are competing with a false economy so no-one wins. The client gets pissed off because their expectations are shattered. I've had numerous clients say they'll pay me when the jobs done. They won't pay a deposit because they've had a bad experience. (again with overseas and UK freelancers) I don't usually take these clients on because i know it's going to be hard work trying to make up for someone else's poor service. It's just not worth it. I've had clients argue over £50. I don't have clients like that anymore.
So the client posts unreasonable budgets that are geared towards professionals in other countries that have a much lower cost of living and expect to get a excellent service without the complication of a language and cultural barrier.
I just feel if you're going to use this site then don't bid on the cheap budgets.
Fri, 25 Nov 2011 at 9:49am
Agreed. Bid carefully. And be as open and honest about your bid as you can be. PPH, if you use it correctly, can help with mediation, whish is far harder to do on your own when things go awry.
Fri, 25 Nov 2011 at 9:54am
This problem will never go away while you have supposed freelancers willing to undercut everyone else and provide their services for pennies.
Wed, 30 Nov 2011 at 4:28pm