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All Topics » Work hub » Are we heading down the route of other freelance sites?

Are we heading down the route of other freelance sites?

 
by Sarah D
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I have to say I am very disappointed with PPH in this respect, and I really hope that someone from the company can give me an explanation for this.

There was recently a job posted for Article Rewriting, where the client was offering a mere $1 per article and actually expecting native English speakers to apply. 

I replied via the clarification board to tell this client that if he expected to pay such ridiculous amounts for work then he should consider other freelance sites. I then received an email notification from PPH informing me that my comment had been removed due to breaking the clarification board rules, and that my comment resembled a discussion as opposed to a question about the job.

I have since noticed that other freelancers have commented on this particular job, and have basically said the same things that I did - I really fail to see why my comment was removed, and why PPH are allowing such trash to be posted here.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this? I really thought that PPH valued their reputation and would hate to see this site going down the same route as freelancer.com or Elance. I think to maintain the high(ish) standards here, then it is important that we are able to let clients know when they are taking the p**s.
4 Dec 2011 at 10:31 AM
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Maggie W
 
I agree with you 100% Sarah. I think PPH should be brave enough to take a stand and define themselves as a quality site that doesn't accept jobs that take the P155, they are in a position now when they could do this, it would set them apart from the rest and they would have the full support of most of the freelancers and clients. But  apparently they won't do it. This issue has been raised so many times recently and it always ends up hitting the same brick wall because there are always freelancers who bid for these jobs. So PPH can keep using the tired old argument that there is a niche for it, and if it's not for you then simply don't bid. Doesn't make it right but I think you have to learn to ignore jobs like that, a client like that clearly isn't concerned with quality and is never going to pay a decent rate, so as far as you are concerned they might as well not exist.  Trouble is, one cient does it so others think it's OK to offer a dollar an article and they do it too. 

4 Dec 2011 at 11:51 AM

Dawn B
 
Sarah - I agree 100%

Maggie

I think your post is excellent.  I know the advice is to ignore these stupid jobs but nevertheless I feel these jobs should not be on this site if PPH cares about their reputation or at least not open to UK freelancers if the budget is below the minimum wage for UK.   If more and more of these jobs are posted then there will be nothing worth bidding on.

In the last few weeks I have seen two jobs posted both of which caused me concerned. One project was for help with a student's school work (against PPH rules) and another job for designing a pornography web site.  These jobs were eventually cancelled by PPH but they should have not been posted in the first place if PPH cares about the reputation of this site.  

I wished PPH would take a more proactive stance in maintaining high standards regarding budget and type of jobs.  




4 Dec 2011 at 3:40 PM

Daniel P
 
Thing is guys, these clients paying these low rates are going to get very poor results, it's a simple as that, it's like everything, I bought a really cheap tripod for my camera a few months ago, it broke in a week. Have since bought a better one and it's brilliant.

I sometimes worry that potential clients might see these jobs and think it's the going rate, but as soon as they get one of these 'professionals' willing to work for such low rates, they will realise that they've wasted their time, and will be stuck with a crappy logo/website/atricle etc

Also, there's nothing wrong with someone wanting a Pornography website designed, a website is a website, as long as they are paying acceptable rates, there's nothing wrong with it, have seen many such jobs posted and awarded on here in the past, including packaging for sex toys etc scared surprised

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5 Dec 2011 at 10:04 AM

Sarah D
 
I understand your point Daniel. But I have to agree with both Dawn and Maggie when they say that PPH should be doing more to stop this kind of trash in the first place - as you say, when new clients are joining, they might see these rates as the norm and think they can get something for nothing too.

Of course, eventually they will realize that they have to invest to get quality, but if we have too many of these chancers joining, then us freelancers will have to spend ages trawling through the rubbish to actually find quality jobs, and then any good job that appears will have hundreds of bids.

The thing that bothers me is that this "job" obviously had to be reviewed by PPH before going live, so I don't understand why they let it through in the first place - but yet, they found time to remove my post as it apparently is in violation of the terms - something that I never do.

I really hope that PPH has the guts to at least explain to me why they felt this was necessary and why they have still not removed this job. I would expect to see jobs like this on other sites, but not here.

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5 Dec 2011 at 11:42 AM

Dawn B
 
Sarah - Very well put -  I agree 100%
Like you I have my post removed when I complained about the budget to the client.


Daniel - As for the Pornography website project  - well maybe I am being prudish.  The job was removed but I think that was because the client was rude to the freelancers when they complained about the budget.  

5 Dec 2011 at 12:04 PM

Maggie W
 
Daniel, you are absolutely right that the clients who offer bargain-basement rates should expect to get crappy results delivered, but surely this is the OP's point - is PPH doing itself any favours in aligning itself with that sector of the marketplace?

A question for you: having bought your cheapo tripod that fell to bits, did you then go back to the same shop to buy a good one, or did you go somewhere else? Me, I'd probably have gone somewhere else. If I'm setting out to to buy something good, I don't go into a shop that displays crap in the window, if you take my point. 

FWIW I think the porno issue is a different issue altogether, and as long as it isn't child-related or otherwise subversive/illegal I don't see a reason to exclude it.

5 Dec 2011 at 2:09 PM

Dea-Marie W
 
Hi all, 

Thank you for your comments, I shall do my best to address the issues that have been raised here. As the original posting was from Sarah, let me try to give you some further insight. 

1). The conditons of any job posting with regards to budgets:
  • clients are restricted to post jobs for no less than £40/$40/€40 for fixed price 
  • clients are restricted to post jobs for no less than £4/$4/€4 for hourly paid jobs
In this instance, I'd imagine that the client set the budget at say £200 with a further stiplation that this is for a specific number of articles. Whilst all jobs are reviewed before they go live, we have the extremely difficult job of deciding what qualifies as 'acceptable'. We do need to consider it from all angles,without being biased and without isolating other users. Yes this may seem like a significantly low rate, but we need to consider whether this is a reasonable rate for some freelancers? Bearing in mind that there are many factors that could influence someone's decision to bid on a job such as this, not just their location.  

2) Comments left on the clarification can be removed by both PPH & the client. We allow clients the freedom to moderate their jobs & if they feel that a comment left is not constructive or offensive then they have the right to remove such comments. PPH also reserve this right too, the clarification board is primarily there to allow freelancers to ask further questions about the job, if they are in doubt. 

3) We can certainly see that the expectation of a native english speaker may well appear to be unrealistic, however there are native english speakers who do not live in the UK and again, this may well an acceptable rate for them.

4) Quality and reputation: both are extremely important to PPH, which is why all the feedback we recieve does not just go into a black hole and formulates the basis of our vision for the future. There will be changes that address these problem areas, but this takes time...we must take in consideration that we have thousands of users, with different needs and expectations. The solution, is by no means simple and we have done a lot of work to devise ways of approaching these issues. We hope that the changes in the near future will help the majority, if not all our users, in the meantime we can only iterate the same points and continue to reassure our users that we are listening; as unfortunately there is no overnight fix. 
  
Lastly, PPH is always happy to discuss any aspect of the site with our users and we will do our very best to explain our reasoning for any decisions that are made. We would appreciate your patience, whilst we do develop and implement features, which are intended to continue making PPH a site that offers opportunities to as many people as possible, this is certainly something we value and pride ourselves on.  

~Dea-Marie~




Harshad likes this.

5 Dec 2011 at 2:33 PM

Sarah D
 
Hi Dea-Marie,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. However, I really have trouble understanding how anyone at PPH can think that $1 per article is "acceptable", and that's not even taking into account the rest of the nonsense that this client posted - it's just insulting, and that's me being nice.

I understand that in some parts of the world -even in the UK, there are still people who bid on these projects, but don't you agree that this just sets a bad example and actually makes it harder for the real freelancers on here to actually try and find decent paying jobs.

You say that this "may seem like a significantly low rate" I'm sorry, but IT IS an extremely ridiculous low rate and the client should be made aware of what he is doing - exploiting people. PPH took the time to remove my comment - yet couldn't find the time to come to the conclusion that this rate is just not acceptable.

The client should be told by PPH to either set a more realistic budget, or have his account removed - that may seem harsh, but if you really want to get rid of the trash, then that's certainly one way - let them go to Elance.

PPH keep insisting that they don't want to be viewed in the same way as other freelance sites - but with people like this joining, it will soon happen. I guess only time will tell.




Dawn, Paul and 17 other people like this.

5 Dec 2011 at 3:05 PM

Paul A
 
I'm with you Sarah.

5 Dec 2011 at 3:08 PM

Dawn B
 
Excellent response

Christina likes this.

5 Dec 2011 at 3:39 PM